Showing posts with label suicide assessment. Show all posts
Showing posts with label suicide assessment. Show all posts

Wednesday, December 24, 2025

The Phenomenological Suicide Assessment – The Legacy of Dr. H.

 


Warning:  This post is about suicide and the assessment of suicide.  It is intended for mental health professionals and people who not distressed by this topic.  Avoid reading this if you find the topic of suicide distressing.  

 

Suicide assessments constitute a major part of psychiatric practice.  According to standard guidelines it is a recommended part of any initial assessment.  Acute care psychiatry selects for these assessments largely because hospitalization and crisis care is focused on it and aggressive behavior.  Over the past 30 years insurance companies and governments have made it virtually impossible to treat people in a secure environment unless there is a risk of suicide or aggression. 

Most suicide assessments are taught as an exercise in risk factor analysis. Patient traits, demographics, and diagnoses correlated with suicide or suicidal ideation are collected across studies and applied to current evaluations.  Decisions about treatment are made on that basis.  The decisions may also have implications about continued risk despite what is said in the interview.  It can be a basis for court ordered involuntary treatment.

For example, let’s say I am asked to see an 80-year-old man on a surgical service.  He is there because he tried to cut his throat and underwent surgical repair of his esophagus and trachea as a result.  He describes feeling better at the time of the interview but says he has been depressed for years.  He lives alone after his wife of 45 years died last year.  At some point he noticed that there was a foul smell covering his body.  He thinks the smell comes out of his mouth at night and covers his entire body.  He is a heavy drinker and consumes 500 ml of vodka per day.  He prefers to return home without treatment as soon as the surgery team clears him for discharge.  His labs show elevated transaminases and prolonged coagulation parameters.

This is an example of a person at high risk for ongoing suicide attempts based on risk factors.  In this case depression, psychosis, alcohol use, a serious suicide attempt requiring surgical repair, age, and lack of social support all define him as high risk.  It is unlikely that any psychiatry service would discharge him untreated to go back home and potentially experience the same series of events that led to the attempt. 

That was state of the art assessment back in 1982 when I started my residency and it is not much different now.  A few months ago, I sat through a very long presentation on an artificial intelligence (AI) based approach to suicide assessment.  It consisted of analyzing the patient’s word frequency during the assessment and deciding suicide risk based on that.  The qualifier was that it was not a substitute for clinical judgment.  It reminded me a lot of the quantitative electroencephalogram (QEEG) research I started doing in 1986.  The technology claimed to be able to separate psychiatric diagnoses based on fast Fourier transformation (FFT) analyses of EEG frequency bands. The problem was the analysis also depended on clinical features that had to be added to the diagnostic algorithm.  It was not a true test without that additional input. The AI analysis of suicide was no different.    

The problems with assessments for suicide potential are essential two-fold.  First, the conscious state of the individual changes and they go from a person who would never consider suicide to one that would.  Before that change you are talking with and gathering data from a person who is not contemplating suicide.  Second, suicide attempts are generally impulsive.  Many people interviewed after surviving a suicide attempt are glad they survived.  In many cases they regretted to committing to suicidal behavior almost immediately.  A good example are the young men who survive jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge (1).  They experienced instant regret after jumping away from the railing.  An additional complicating factor is that the person sitting in front of you may want to be released to make another suicide attempt and they either do not want to discuss it or they want to conceal that fact from you.

I had all these things on my mind when I was doing consults on medical-surgical patients at the hospital where I trained back in 1982.  I was a first-year resident and my job on this rotation was to show up and do all the preliminary evaluations on the consult requests that day and then present and discuss them with my attending Dr. H.  Dr. H had been an attending for about 6 years at that point.  She had returned to work in the county hospital from private practice.   I had worked with her for a few days and things seemed to be going well.  We generally agreed on diagnoses and treatment plans and there were no personality conflicts.  That is about as ideal as it gets for a resident.  Then one day – Dr. H showed me an interview technique that I never forgot.

I had just presented the case of a young man who had overdosed on antidepressant medications.  He seemed mildly depressed and irritated.  I ran down his history and probable diagnosis to Dr. H and we walked in his room so that she could interview him.  It went something like this:

Dr. H:  “Hi I am Dr. H and I am the staff psychiatrist here.  Dr. Dawson was just telling me a few things about what happened.  Would it be OK if I asked you some questions?”

Pt:  “Sure.”

Dr. H:  (after clarifying the demographic and medical data): “Can I ask you about the overdose”

Pt:  “Sure”

Dr. H:  “Do you remember the details?  Do you know the pills you were taking?”

Pt:  “Yes they were amoxapine.”

Dr. H:  “How did you take them? Did you take them all at once or one at a time?”

Pt:  “I was taking handfuls.  I would take a handful at a time and rinse them down with water.  It was hard to do because they are large capsules….I had to take more and more water and eventually stopped.”

Dr. H:  “And what exactly were you thinking at the time?”

Pt:  “I was thinking I wanted to die.  I was thinking that I was a loser and I wanted to die.  I could not see any future.  I did some research on this and knew that this stuff was fairly toxic and that if I took enough of it – it would kill me.  I was throwing them down as fast as I could.”

Dr. H:  “What happened next?”

Pt:  “At some point I started to feel sick and I got really drowsy and passed out. The next thing I was waking up in the Emergency Department downstairs.  They had a tube down my throat and they were giving me charcoal.”

Dr.  H:  “Looking back on what happened yesterday – what do you think?’

Pt:  “I would not do the same thing again but it would not have bothered me if I succeeded yesterday.”

Dr. H:  “Do you feel like a different person today?’ ….

 

The above exchange is a brief excerpt of the interview, but it was not like my interview.  I spent about an hour interviewing the patient about depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation like they were all third person observable objective facts. He was clearly less engaged with me than he was with Dr. H.  When you interview someone from the perspective of third person objective facts – you invite them to see the world the same way.  They become passive observers to what happened to them.  You can’t really get to the change in conscious state or impulsivity that make suicidal states unique.  Dr. H went on another 20 minutes getting every detail of this patient’s subjective experience of the incident.  It was amazing and we discussed it when she was done.

From that point on my suicide assessments were all based on that phenomenological approach whether I was talking with people who survived attempts or were talking with me because they feared losing control.  I needed to know their emotional state and what they were thinking.  Even in those descriptions there were conscious fantasies and defenses:  “I was pointing the gun at myself but I never pulled the trigger.  It just went off in my hand.”  In the process I heard hundreds if not thousands of reasons why people attempt suicide and exactly what they were feeling and thinking at the time.  In the larger scope Dr. H helped me focus on the subjective.  That is something that you lose in medical school where there is an implicit emphasis on the objective and subjectivity seems like a bad thing.  The reality is that subjectivity dwells within every classification system.

 My memories of the past are so vivid that at times I forget I am an old man.  I recalled the above exchange with Dr. H when I was discussing phenomenologically based approaches to suicide assessments with a new generation of residents.  That happened just last week.  I decided to look her up and see what she was currently doing.  I wanted to thank her for the direction she gave my development and career.  I found out that she died 6 years ago.  Her obituary said she did not want a funeral.  The family requested memories and stories.  I hope this blog serves that function. She taught me about phenomenological suicide assessments when they are scarcely written about to this day.  I am sure she taught many more people than me. 

Passing an important technique along that you can’t find in a book or a paper and making that accessible to a young resident who thinks he is getting the job done is a great legacy. 

 

Thank you Dr. H!.

 

George Dawson, MD, DFAPA

 

References:

1:  Nelson K.  ‘All I wanted to do was live’: After years of debate, a suicide safety net for the Golden Gate Bridge is nearing completion. Survivors say it’ll give many a 2nd chance at life.  CNN.  November 19, 2023  https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/19/us/golden-gate-bridge-suicide-safety-net