tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7772182113499451603.post1724802784262075137..comments2024-03-27T10:50:53.692-05:00Comments on Real Psychiatry: A Gun In The SnowGeorge Dawson, MD, DFAPAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03474899831557543486noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7772182113499451603.post-15648878438721502882014-06-24T09:58:34.521-05:002014-06-24T09:58:34.521-05:00What is that awful-looking gun, anyhow? It looks ...What is that awful-looking gun, anyhow? It looks like a home-built.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7772182113499451603.post-88661877938553323972013-12-17T01:11:24.728-06:002013-12-17T01:11:24.728-06:00I don't think the issue is whether Washington ...I don't think the issue is whether Washington or Jefferson would get the vapors. It is common these days to use the founding fathers to justify easy access to firearms and you can find as much contrary evidence. The question is whether they would want firearms lying around in the street where anyone including children could access them. Of course this is not a Revolutionary War weapon - this is a semi-automatic pistol.<br /><br />The link you posted to CNN comes to the same conclusion my source did - the perpetrator shot himself. I have a previous post on the "good guy with a gun" rhetoric and of the the inherent problems with that approach.<br /><br />As far as Zakaria not being an objective journalist try this reference:<br /><br />Rosenbaum JE. Gun utopias? Firearm access and ownership in Israel and<br />Switzerland. J Public Health Policy. 2012 Feb;33(1):46-58.<br /><br />From the abstract: "Gun advocates claim mass-casualty events are mitigated and deterred with three policies: (a) permissive gun laws, (b) widespread gun ownership, (c) and encouragement of armed civilians who can intercept shooters. They cite Switzerland and Israel as exemplars. We evaluate these claims with analysis of International Crime Victimization Survey (ICVS) data and translation of laws and original source material. Swiss and Israeli laws limit firearm ownership and require permit renewal one to four times annually. ICVS analysis finds the United States has more firearms per capita and per household than either country. Switzerland and Israel curtail off-duty soldiers' firearm access to prevent firearm deaths. Suicide among soldiers decreased by 40 per cent after the Israeli army's 2006 reforms. Compared with the United States, Switzerland and Israel have lower gun ownership and stricter gun laws, and their policies discourage personal gun ownership."<br /><br />I think that the Israeli reform in this case was not allowing their soldiers to take their ammunition home on the weekends. It turn out that separating soldiers from their weapons and ammunition saves lives and is a source of a current initiative to prevent suicide in veterans. The military even acknowledges that access is a safety problem.<br /><br />I think you also miss the main point of my post. The gun access issue to me is really a side issue compared with figuring out a way to do primary and secondary prevention. I don't fool myself into thinking that advocates for easy access of firearms will respond to any argument no matter how feasible. George Dawson, MD, DFAPAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03474899831557543486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7772182113499451603.post-29223873924440567792013-12-17T00:08:57.279-06:002013-12-17T00:08:57.279-06:00You said that the founding fathers would be shocke...You said that the founding fathers would be shocked by the sight of a gun. These were hardened men who were very familiar with weapons who discharged them frequently. They are not going to get the vapors at the sight of a weapon. Washington was a general, Jefferson was a marksman who won shooting contests. I think they would have picked it up and add it to their collection, probably marveling at its superiority to muskets. Read any of the Federalist Papers on the 2nd amendment..these guys were not only pro-gun rights, they loved their guns.<br /><br />Inadvertently, in trying to refute me by using Switzerland as an example you are confirming that the independent variable is culture not gun proliferation. Swiss citizens are part of a militia and own heavy duty semi and automatic weapons. This is a point made years ago in the book, "The Sumurai, the Mountie and the Cowboy" on culture and attitude toward weapons.<br /><br />You can find out about the circumstances on the recent shooting. You are incorrect on all counts about what happened, he just didn't kill himself out of the blue and he intended to kills dozens. Here is what really happened that vast right wing media outlet, CNN:<br /><br />http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/14/us/colorado-school-shooting<br /><br />He also purchased a shotgun legally, and as far as we know had no mental health history, so I don't know how you realistically screen him.<br /><br />So let's get rid of the culture variable and look at two American cities:<br /><br />http://i.imgur.com/en3HZ5T.jpg<br /><br />It is pointless to try to offer Japanese solutions to an American issue. Japan never had 300 million guns in circulation. <br /><br />Good guy with a gun is the best answer to bad guy with a gun as the recent Colo incident and the carnage in Chicago affirms.<br /><br />I don't consider Fareed Zakaria an objective journalist so that appeal to authority won't work with me. James O'Brien, M.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14994350319492582321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7772182113499451603.post-54866321308121643872013-12-16T20:01:21.351-06:002013-12-16T20:01:21.351-06:00If a gun if it picked up by a middle aged physicia...If a gun if it picked up by a middle aged physician intent on turning it in to the police - it's just a gun. It's potentially something else if it is picked up by a kid on the way to school.<br /><br />I disagree with you about Gen. Washington and cite the total deaths in the Revolutionary War and current firearm deaths on an annual basis in the US. The annual carnage from gun violence in the US easily exceeds that figure. A better modern comparison would be the Vietnam War. The death and disability from that war touched everybody and every two years total firearm deaths exceed the number of deaths in that war.<br /><br />I would encourage anyone with ideas about firearm access in Switzerland to watch Zakaria's special to see how that actually plays out there. Firearm access is much more tightly controlled in Switzerland than in the US, contrary to the rhetoric here about how the Swiss have unlimited access to any weapons that they want and that Switzerland is an idyllic setting for gun enthusiasts. <br /><br />As far as city to city comparisons go a lot depends on the ease of gun diversions close by. One of the gun dealers with the highest diversion rate to criminals (see the link) is less than 2 hours away from Chicago.<br /><br />I don't know the full details about the recent shooting but 12/14 report and floorplan in the Denver Post said that the shooter killed himself. A previous report said he came in looking for a specific person who left the building when he heard about it. Initial reports credited that action and "active shooter" protocols for the students with saving lives. But in all of these situations we are left with the question of where the gun comes from and why there is easy access. The Zakaria special also talked about suicides in the military and the potent effect of separating firearms from suicidal soldiers and even ammunition from soldiers on weekend passes.<br /><br />The issue of easy access to a highly lethal weapon cannot be explained away. That is probably why every firearm comes with the warning that inappropriate use can result in serious injury or death.<br />George Dawson, MD, DFAPAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03474899831557543486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7772182113499451603.post-31826450338452332732013-12-16T09:23:13.111-06:002013-12-16T09:23:13.111-06:00It's a gun, not a live grenade. It's not ...It's a gun, not a live grenade. It's not going to discharge itself. I know it is practically a condition of psychiatric licensure to believe the mere sight of a gun is icky, but a little perspective is needed. I do not think George Washington, who was a general, would be shocked by the sight of a lost gun. He had seen far worse in 2 wars. There were morons and drunks in the 18th century too and I'm sure they lost muskets.<br /><br /> If someone left it in the street, it probably wasn't lost but purchased illegally and used in the commission of a crime then dumped. And none of those "common-sense measures" would have any effect on its existence in society. <br /><br />"There are clear models for what happens to firearm deaths when some restrictions are placed on their access." How is that working out in Chicago?<br /><br />You compared US to Japan. Now compare it to Switzerland and see if the identified independent variable holds up. Then compare Chicago to Houston and look at the same alleged independent variable. <br /><br />BTW, since you brought up this week's school shooting, that was quickly ended by the presence of an armed guard at the school. So consider the idea that just maybe that the right person armed in open carry was life saving in a big way.James O'Brien, M.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14994350319492582321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7772182113499451603.post-43052987345909287932013-12-15T16:37:41.754-06:002013-12-15T16:37:41.754-06:00The discrepancy between Japan and the US is terrif...The discrepancy between Japan and the US is terrifying.PsychPracticehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07071440888782115503noreply@blogger.com